MIDI CC device // sandbox handling

Still new to Bitwig, so please forgive me if I´m missing something.

There is a plugin (D16 Phoscyon 2) that offers a lot of MIDI mapping capabilities. To my surprise, MIDI CC from a hardware controller is not directly forwarded to the VST Plugin and therefore can´t be mapped within the plugin.

Mapping to the exposed parameter list is an option, but the Plugin does not expose all of it´s mapable parameters in that way. Dev claims this is a Bitwig problem, although I think it would be more a plugin responsibility. However, this “A says B and B says A” circular fingerpointing does not resolve my issue.

There IS a workaround and this involves a large number of MIDI CC devices: Using those, I can map the hardware controller to the MIDI CC device knobs and map the plugin parameters to them as well. However, doing this for a MIDI Fighter Twister was pain in the neck, as we talk 64 pots and 64 switches here, so I ended using 16x MIDI CC device in a chain.

Wouldn´t it be nice if we could just specify a number of MIDI CC values that a MIDI CC device offers, instead of just 2x4 per device?

Alternative: Create an option to forward the controller MIDI CC directly to the plugin (I assume it´s normally denied to apply the sandbox principle to MIDI CC as well)

https://d16.pl/phoscyon2 claims to have MIDI learn. Isn’t this enough to map your controller?

Although convenient to midi cc learn and map direct to the plugin, I believe because of Bitwigs ability to modulate at the audio rate it would cause sync issue where midi could be overloaded. Really the plugin developer shouldn’t be hiding the parameters behind a GUI, they should all be there so you can map them. Dynamic VST parameters that come and go are a bit of a no no in my opinion.
Still it would be cool if midi learn in the GUI could perhaps auto-map to Bitwigs parameter list although whatever you’re twiddling i nthe GUI does float to the top so easy to map really, it’s just an extra click that way.

OP is talking about the classic midi learn in older workflow DAWs where you map the cc to the GUI I believe.

Well, depends how you look at it:

If you want to Map within the plugin, ie put a plugin control in MIDI learn mode, turn a hardware pot and done - this is not possible. No hw data is forwarded “into” the plugin.

If you´re okay with setting up 16x MIDI CC devices and map the plugins parameters to them, then do a second round to map the CC Devices controls to the incoming hardware CC, then you can. But this is not exactly elegant.

Basically you create an second “unofficial parameter list” for Phoscyon 2, since not all parameters you can map in the plugin are exposed the “official” parameter list.

Yes, exactly. I would happily just map in Bitwig, if all parameters were available there. Out of the 135 mapable parameters, roughly 2/3 are in the parameter list, so that´s why it´s not an option.

The question is: How does Bitwig get to this parameter list:
a) A plugin developer provides this list and Bitwig uses whatever is given?
b) Bitwig somehow figures out what is accssible and creates the parameter list of their own (which already sounds irritating, but I´m not a programmer).

I have a feeling that option a) is more likely, but won´t claim anything until confirmed by someone with more dev knowledge that I have :slight_smile:

Do you have a specific parameter of the plugin that won’t map? I downloaded the demo of Phoscyon 2 but didn’t find a paramater yet that wasn’t mapping. You do have to adjust the parameter in the gui for it to float to the top for Bitwigs own paramater mapping though.

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Thanks for testing! What did you map the plugin parameter to?

  • If I put a plugin control in learn mode and move a dial on the CC device, this maps for all parameters.
  • If I put a plugin control in learn mode and move a dial on the hardware, nothing happens.

Only if I map the plugin parameters to MIDI CC Device, I can then map the hardware to the MIDI CC dial, which “relays” it´s value to the assigned plugin control.

Are we talking about the same thing? If so, maybe my hardware acts funny. It´s a MIDI Fighter Twister. Which hardware did you map to?

As for paramaters that are mapable but not exposed (ie not in paramemter list): Pretty much all of the sequencer controls, randomizer controls and buttons in the sequencer/arpeggiator area.