[Draft discussion] All randomness should repeat within a project + seed of randomness

I’ve changed the proposal. Check please. Also feel free to introduce changes which probably don’t need a discussion.

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I have simplified the description a bit. I think the example provided was quite complex, while the idea it self is basic. If you’d rather keep the example, it can be retrieved from the version history.

It would be very useful to specify examples.

All in all, I think we’re close to complete this draft. :slight_smile:

I only just noticed, that when we copy Seed pattern from Clip, we can actually paste it anywhere as number, for instance in Project tab:

image

the pattern isn’t random either, here’s how pasting number 1 looks like:
image

I do like the look of the pattern, and it allows for displaying huge numbers in a smaller space. I just want to be able to Ctrl+click to enter number in the field instead of having to copy that number elsewhere first.

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This is an interesting finding. I had no idea.

Mmm how does this affect the current description of this request?

I like how you thought about keeping it random for those who prefer that from the start. Repeatability is a good feature, for people who want to work with predictable outcomes. Personally, I have a creative process that relies on randomness as a way to surprise me every time I listen. I’d never lock this seed.

I am a bit concerned about the screen estate this will occupy. Maybe it would be an option to put it into the parameter view instead of front and center?

Also, how would this work with sources of randomness in the grid? There’s a few of them.

I do see a fundamental issue though. Will randomness with a seed then be bound to transport position? The grid can generate sounds, even entire multi track compositions, with stopped transport easily. Plugins like VCV Rack, too. If those are modulated with a fixed seed, what happens?

If they are modulated with tempo synced randomness right now, it’s just “the tempo it would be if transport was running”. While it can still be that with a fixed seed, there is no such thing as “the transport position it would be if transport was running”…

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We exactly want to put it to panel on the left side.

That’s good point regarding stopped transport. Probably it just can fallback to “phase” if transport is stopped. But it looks like this question should be considered by developers? I personally don’t care much what will happens when it’s stopped) I would like to see it at least while transport is playing)

I think the best way would be a global setting in the project panel. If you set a seed there, it gets used for the whole project, otherwise it stays random.

That way, you can easily create new versions of your arrangement by trying different seeds while being able to keep the old seeds to go back anytime.

basically we want more of this:
image
everywhere concerning random

since you’re talking about default option ‘Free-run when transport is stopped’, that’s exactly what’s going to happen. it just keeps going as if transport was still playing, only resetting if you play transport again (and align with position on play)

hmm, perhaps it would work by setting same seed for every source where you would otherwise set it individually?

Basically. Although if you use the same seed everywhere, everything would produce the same random values. So each modulator etc. would still needs its own seed derived in a deterministic way from the global seed.

In addition, you could allow the user to choose a seed in the inspector field as already proposed here.

Personally, I don’t want to deal with each source of randomness individually, so I’d prefer a project-wide setting, but I can also see how people would want to control each source individually. This would offer both.

hmm, I’ll try using same seed in 2 different clips to see if there’s any link. although comparing different clips would be not fair, since it does throw dice at different timings and in different quantity

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@icaria36 I made some edits to the draft. Do you think it’s ready for promotion or is there anything missing?

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Thank you so much @Fooltopia. Looks good to me.

Let’s wait a bit to see whether there are any objections, and then I’ll promote this request to #features .

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I have updated the mockup for Dice module, so it’s same design as we have currently for Clip seed control

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